Boy Scouts of America made a huge announcement yesterday: starting next year, girls will be able to enroll in their Cub Scouting program, and by 2019 be qualified to earn the coveted Eagle Scout rank. And of course, there is much debate, outrage, celebration, and overall insanity over the decision.
(Let’s just say, we’re a culture that rarely embraces change easily.)
As for me, I’m celebrating. And I say this as a devoted Cub Scout and Girl Scout Leader myself.
I also happen to be a parent of kids who are currently in Cub Scouts, Girl Scouts, and Boy Scouts. But I admit I do have some mixed emotions about it too.
Here are my thoughts.
Related: Peace, love and Girl Scouts | Thinking : Parent
Yay, inclusivity!
In 2013, BSA voted to allow openly gay members, and earlier this year announced that transgender kids are welcome as well. So I see this is another move toward inclusivity — I love the idea that anyone has the opportunity to get the benefits of the character development, leadership training, and outdoor skills that Boy Scouts of America has provided for boys.
My own sons have shocked and impressed me with the things they’ve accomplished so far in their scouting journeys, and I love that the same accomplishments will now be available to anyone — provided parents are willing to get involved right along with their daughters.
But more on that below.
Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts are not the same at all.
Most non-scouts do not realize that the Boy Scouts are not the male version of Girl Scouts. They are totally different organizations, with different goals, activities, and methods of participation.
I’m currently a leader of both a Cub Scout pack and Girl Scout troop, both for kids K-5, and I plan to keep it that way. I do believe the Girl Scout curriculum is just more compelling for the girls at this younger age.
The big difference in the two is that, speaking generally, Cub Scouts must complete a specific set of requirements to advance. The Girl Scout requirements are much more flexible — the badge activities are solely determined by the troop. On the plus side, that means girls can focus on what they’re interested in, whether it’s coding robots, first aid, acting, or philanthropy.
On the other hand, you could conceivably make it all the way through Girl Scouts without ever having gone camping, cooked over a campfire, or tied a knot. Opening up Boy Scouts to girls gives them an opportunity to pursue those interests that they may not otherwise have.
To be clear: I am in no way denigrate any passions or interests that young girls care about. (Ed note: and here’s where we could get into an entire discussion about patriarchy and institutionalized sexism and what’s considered acceptable, and the low-hanging fruit in terms of short-term change…but we’ll leave that for another post. -LG) But I will confess that avid Boy Scouts do not perceive the Girl Scout curriculum to be “real” scouting, and I can see why.
The experiences of each group are set up to be entirely different, which is why I think giving girls a choice — not putting down the choice they make, but opening up options — is extremely important.
For comparison sake, nursing is an amazing, essential profession. So is being a surgeon. Both boys and girls should be able to grow up aspiring to be either a nurse or a surgeon, and having either decision supported and valued.
Boy Scouts have easier access to scouting mentorship…and mentoring
Another huge difference between the organizations is that Boy Scout troops are typically established and ongoing, with leadership passed on for decades. In fact, a local troop near me just celebrated their 100th year!
Girl Scout troops, on the other hand, can be started at any time by a willing parent, which often creates an environment where one mom takes a small group of her daughter and some friends through the program until they graduate or lose interest. That’s not a problem in itself, but it does create some important disparities.
In my experience, the Boy Scout groups we’ve been involved with have very experienced leadership, multi-level membership (troops comprised of scouts of all ages), and well-structured organization overall. That means there’s a longevity factor for both the scouts and the leaders.
The result? Boys have seasoned scouting leaders to look up to and learn from, as well as the chance to mentor younger kids to help build up their own leaderships skills.
Girls may find a wonderful mentor in their existing Girl Scout leader, but they simply don’t have guaranteed access to the same kind of age diversity and experience in their troop when they’re limited to experiences with girls their own age.
This is the reason I’ve structured my own Girl Scout troop more like the Boy Scouts’ multi-level model, but that’s more the exception than the rule — and honestly, it’s a ton of work because I’m building everything from scratch.
Related: 5 Girl Scout cookie recipes you can make at home
The change will be easier for families
The official Boy Scout statement about the policy change to allow girls focused not so much on inclusivity as a core motivation, but on how this will make things easier for families. And a lot of parents will be thrilled about not having to bring two or three different kids to different meetings and events.
But there’s a greater issue for families here.
The thing that those not in the scouting community might not realize, is that Boy Scouts is one of the few activities that expects parents to participate with their kid, as opposed to just dropping them off.
Girl Scouts, on the other hand, is a different kind of organization, as I’ve said, and tends to function using the drop-off system..
The Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts encourage full-family participation. © Boy Scouts of America
…and better for girls with diverse families
To get more detailed, Girl Scout program really is geared around a friendship experience, not a family experience. In that sense it can be great girls who are being raised by single fathers, or who have moms who may not be available for whatever reason — because another mom will be the leader.
However.
If those girls — or their families — would like more of an inclusive, whole-family experience, the Boy Scout structure is more appealing. Their decision to welcome girls in is fantastic for them.
In fact, some Girl Scout council events limit our troop to only bringing two adults per every eight girls, meaning moms who want to watch our daughters participate, literally aren’t allowed to do so. That’s also a tough situation for girls with two moms.
And when our troop camps at Girl Scout owned sites — which are amazing, BTW — the dads must sleep at a separate campsite, far away from the girls, leaving them out of the experience entirely. And for girls being raised by a father or grandfather, that means they don’t have the same family bonding time as other girls in the troop.
Obviously this is all a matter of personal preference, and there’s a lot to be said for a female-only scouting experience for girls.
What matters to me however, is that there’s a choice.
While I love my one-on-one time with my daughter at Girl Scout campouts, I must say, the campouts and other special scouting events that include absolutely everyone in the family really make it fun to be together. No matter what your family looks like.
Girls can now achieve Eagle Scout rank, and that’s has real life implications.
When it comes to the newfound ability for girls in Boy Scouts to reach Eagle Scout rank, I couldn’t be more excited.
The Eagle Scout rank is one of the most respected accomplishments a boy can put on his college resume. It takes a tremendous amount of work, with requirements including hiking 70 miles, mastering 33 pages worth of cooking skills, and of course, gaining invaluable leadership training and experience. And that’s just for starters.
Eagle Scout is a rank only 4 percent of Scouts achieve, because it’s that freaking hard to do.
Plus, with the rank, comes amazing benefits: Colleges recruit and offer scholarships to boys who are Eagle Scouts, without having seen their grades or full resumes.
I even know executives who have automatically granted job interviews to anyone who is an Eagle Scout.
It’s that big a deal.
Earning Eagle Scout rank is a major head start for boys in the world, and there is nothing even remotely equivalent in the Girl Scout program.
Yes, there is a Gold Award in Girl Scouts, and achieving it is impressive. However I have to be honest — as a Girl Scout leader myself — and admit that it doesn’t carry nearly the same prestige or offer the same benefits. (Our editor Liz, who I consider very well informed, had never even heard of it.) That’s likely a factor of the still male-dominated corporate world, and that’s unfortunate. But it is what it is.
Now, since the 1970s, girls have been able to earn merit badges through the Boy Scouts’ Co-Ed Venturing Program. But even if they have completed all requirements for the Eagle rank, those in the Venture Program have no opportunity to be awarded this rank.
Updated to add: While the BSA website states that qualified Venturers can earn merit badges, some of our readers are contradicting this statement. You can find out details about the co-ed Venturing program at their website.
Teen girl Venture Scouts at the 2017 Boy Scouts Jamboree © Boy Scouts of America
Think about that! It’s as if two kids, of equal intelligence and skill, each ace their SATs — but only the boy is allowed to be named a National Merit Scholar.
Recognizing the girls who have worked their butts off to earn this rank is absolutely the right thing to do.
Especially because girls who want to join Boy Scouts to earn the Eagle rank will have to meet the same requirements as the boys.
Related: Girl Scouts announces 23 new STEM badges. Yay for girls and Science!
Integration isn’t going to ruin the Boy Scouts…or the Girl Scouts
Since this decision was announced yesterday, parents in my scouting circles have mostly expressed concern about their kids losing the same-sex bonding experiences in their scouting programs. And that’s fair. But, when I think about it, I didn’t sign my own son up for Boy Scouts primarily he could hang out with boys.
Sure, the friendships and camaraderie are terrific side-benefits. But the reason I signed him up is so that he can learn critical life skills that are making him a more responsible, civic-minded, resilient, and caring human being committed to the service of others.
Without a doubt, those are all things I want for my daughters, too.
Yes, some aspects of Boy Scouts will change with this decision. Girls will now be out on camping expeditions and service projects with boys — although, I predict, in their own segregated overnight campsites. But think about the many overall gains that will come from integrating:
Boys will see that girls have the ability to kick ass on a 30-mile backcountry camping, canoeing, and rock climbing trip. Girls will see that boys can be sensitive and caring and get homesick. And they’ll both learn that they can rely on each other, and together, accomplish even more of the skills they set out to gain from the scouting experience.
What we sacrifice: tradition and status quo. What we gain: mutual respect, equity, and opportunity for all.
That’s worth it to me.
And for the record, this won’t be the death knell for Girl Scouts either. They continue to maintain a program has a totally different feel from Boy Scouts and is still is resonant with so many girls. (Plus, what would I ever do without Thin Mints?) I love that my daughter has the chance to spend time with other girls her age in her troop, and experience the activities that they deem important to them.
There’s so much research about the value of young girls experiencing learning time alone without boys, and the Girl Scouts has offered that in a profound, meaningful way to generations of girls and women. I would never want to diminish that or take that away from anyone.
Really for me, this all just comes down to providing more choices and opportunities for all kids.
Here’s to more of them.
If you’re trying to figure out which program is best for your own children, take a look at each group’s curriculum free online at MeritBadge.org for Boy Scouts of America and Badge Explorer for Girl Scouts of America.
Top photo: Andrew Robles via Unsplash
I have to say that I don’t quite agree. I think that boy scouts is solely for boys and girl scouts solely for girls. It’s to provide a space where they can spend time with people of their gender and age, and allow for role models of the same gender. If the girl scouts curriculum is sub-satisfactory then wouldn’t it be better to change the system so that there is more opportunity to follow whichever leadership path child wants within the scouts (and the whole thing with parents too).
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Ed note:
To clarify: the entire Boy Scouts leadership is open to women, including scoutmasters and 1/3 of BSA volunteers are women.
https://scoutermom.com/17155/can-women-be-assistant-scoutmasters/
And also opening eagle scouts as a co-ed opportunity (as a separate organisation) for girls and boys to interact with each other to achieve the goals of eagle scouts.
Interesting perspective, Jamie. One note, please don’t understand me to say that Girl Scout curriculum is sub-satisfactory. In fact, I’m thrilled with it! It’s just different. I think the Outdoors Skills focus that people typically think of in Boy Scouts can be a vibrant part of a Girl Scout troop too…if that’s what they want their troop to be. Or, they can be focused on science, or service, or leadership. It’s all about options!
“There’s so much research about the value of young girls experiencing learning time alone without boys, and the Girl Scouts has offered that in a profound, meaningful way to generations of girls and women. I would never want to diminish that or take that away from anyone.”
There is research the same for boys experiencing learning with just boys and no that is being taken away.
Amber: Note that Cub scouts is only offering all-boy and all-girl dens to their members, so the kids will get the benefit of being in a mixed group as a pack, but they’ll still have all the benefits of their single-sex learning time too. Yay!
Meritbadge.org is a third party site an doesn’t reflect current requirements of the Boy Scouts.
Venturers don’t earn Merit Badges.
Otherwise great article
Hey, Zack! Thanks for your comments. You’re right about MeritBadge being 3rd party, although they do note the most recent update to each worksheet on its page…so you can see it’s pretty current. Most I’ve downloaded have been updated around December 2016, which was more current than the book we found in our local council shop. They have changed Cub Scout requirements a lot the last couple years!
If you read the link we included about Venturers getting merit badges, you can see that it says, “There are more than 135 merit badges, and any Boy Scout or Varsity Scout, or any qualified Venturer or Sea Scout may earn any of these at any time.” However, my understanding is that Venturers don’t advance through ranks the same way Boy Scouts do. So, although they might earn all the merit badges required for Eagle Scout, they haven’t done all the work included in the ranks (which is a significant amount of work).
Venture and Sea Scouts must have previously earned the First Class rank in a Boy Scout troop in order to continue toward Eagle. While the older scout programs include the badge requirements for specific awards or ranks, the merit badges themselves are only given to those in Boy Scout troops (or have earned First Class).
It’s easy to say “wouldn’t it be better to change the system”, in Girl Scouting, and quite another to actually accomplish that change. We have come to this point, in large part, because the GSUSA adamantly refuses to change its program, and rebuffed the BSA’s overtures, earlier this year, about a potential alliance or partnership. The GSUSA will only change course — and maybe not even then — if they suffer a massive exodus of girls out of their ranks and into those of the BSA.
In Scouts Canada, which is fully coed, Scouts can spend plenty of time with members of their own gender; but they also learn to work with, respect and accept the leadership of members of a different gender. They have role models of their own gender; but they also have role models of a different gender.Coed Scouting works well up there; and it can work well down here.
Thanks for the insight into Scouting in Canada…I’m not very familiar with their program! I actually think the Girl Scout program is pretty fantastic. It’s just very different from Boy Scouts. In my opinion, one isn’t better than the other. Just different. That said, the Eagle rank is an achievement that’s in a league of its own, and Girl Scouts doesn’t have anything comparable in terms of recognition or doors that it opens.
We have heard from multiple parents in Scouts Canada, who also have wonderful things to say about both boys and girls who have gone through the program. I think that change of all kinds is hard for people to process. We’re fast to look at what we think we’re giving up with change, and not what we may gain from it.
As a leader of a Venture Crew, girls cannot earn Merit Badges. They can do the work, but it isn’t recorded at national and I cannot even buy the badge. A boy who is only in a crew cannot earn them either. In order to earn a merit badge in a crew a boy must have earned first class in a troop. Which means that it has never been an opportunity for a girl. There are many things that can be earned in a crew and our awards focus much more on leadership skills but we have nothing that resembles a merit badge.
Michelle, Ahhh… interesting. So that’s what they mean when they say “qualified” Venture scouts can earn merit badges, in the link we included. Thanks for the clarification!
Last summer I went with a troop to a summer camp. There was an all female venturing crew there. Since I am also a venturing advisor, I talked to the leaders and to the girls and asked them about their experience,
They took a bunch of merit badge classes and did the work – they did everything the boys did, but they could’t actually earn the badge
Hi
I am a long term BSA volunteer. I have been a cub scout den leader, assistant scoutmaster, scoutmaster, and merit badge counselor. I am currently a unit commissioner and venturing crew advisor.
As a venturing advisor, I have led co-ed groups on wilderness backpacking and other high adventure trips.
I have long been an advocate of the changes that the BSA announced last week, and I am confident that the result will be a stronger more vibrant organization and program that will be better for all involved.
I have been told by many to “go fix the girl scouts” 1) I am not a member of the Girl Scouts 2) The Girl Scouts isn’t broken – For many girls it is an outstanding program.And I personally know many wonderful girl scout leaders. It is just not the right program for all girls. (including most of the girls in my venturing crew
An analogy I use (true story) my daughter has trouble finding hiking shorts that fit her well – we went to REI and she tried on a bunch of shorts – none of them worked – she said “I am going to go look in the men’s dept” She did, and found 2 shorts that worked great for her (and which she has worn on backpack trips” Now REI could have said “those are men’s shorts – you can’t buy those” – but they didn’t – instead they said “and how would you like to pay for that today?”
I love that, Lee. Thanks so much for a thoughtful perspective. You sound like a fantastic commissioner, and I bet the kids and other volunteers and leaders are lucky to get to share the scouting experience with you.
(And my daughter has very good luck with “boys” shorts too!)
Venturing. A Venture Scout is different than a Venturer. The co-ed program is Venturing.
I have been both a GS leader and the assoc. advisor and advisor for a Venturing Crew. 98% of the female youth in my crew joined because they had male siblings in Boy Scouts and wanted to do the outdoor stuff that their brothers did, opportunities that were not offered to them as Girl Scouts. I know this is dependent on the the leader in your GS troop–wholeheartedly agree with author about the mentoring available in BS and not in GS due to the way the troops are organized.
Karen.
Yes, you are correct – the proper name for the coed program is venturing, and the youth in that program are properly called venturing scouts.
However, even the BSA is inconsistent with the terminology – If you look at the cover of the handbook used in the venturing program, it says “handbook for venturers”
https://www.scoutstuff.org/handbook-venturers-vt.html#.WeXAi2hSyUk.
here is a power point presentation from the bsa that refers to scouts in venturing as venturers
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjqjtGKn_fWAhWExlQKHTZdARgQFghXMAk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.venturing.org%2Fassets%2Fventuring-terminology-and-uniform-guide.pptx&usg=AOvVaw0CLgdE_kBx8JqdVEQ70tfQ
There used to be “venturing patrols” in troops but a couple of years ago, but they changed the name to “older scout patrols” to avoid confusion
The official term for a youth member in Venturing is “Venturer”. Scout is a generic term that applies to youth in all scouting programs. There have never been “Venturing Patrols” in troops. Long ago troops could form a group of older scouts into a “Venture Crew”. After Venturing was created, this term was changed to “Venture Patrol”. The term “Venture” is not used in Venturing.
Merit badges are not part of the Venturing Program. Venturing has its own advancement program. However, Boy Scouts who previously earned First Class Rank (in a Troop or Varsity Team) can pursue Boy Scout advancement in a Venturing Crew (while not a member of a Troop or Team). This includes earning merit badges and Boy Scout ranks (ie Star, Life, Eagle). Neither are available to Venturers (male or female).
My daughter enjoyed Girl Scouts at a young age. She had incredible experiences in Venturing, including many high adventure trips and national and world jamborees. I agree there is a place for both.
Wow! Thank you for writing this article, it resonates exactly how I see the differences of the two programs and how it will benefits girls who are interested in what the Boy Scouts have to offer. Choices and experiences to become a better member of our society. Why would anyone deny that from any child, male or female.
Thank you.
Brigitte, thanks so much! Yes, we’re so glad our kids will have choices now!
Girls have choices but the boys don’t have a choice to have an all boys group. This is just wrong.
Amber, as a mom of boys too, I can sense your frustration. However, Boy Scouts of America hasn’t announced exactly how they will do the Eagle program for girls. The Cub program will be all-boy and all-girl dens, which means they do have options for an all-boy experience.
I don’t have any daughters so I don’t know that much about what the Girl Scouts do even in the troop in the same church as my sons’ Boy Scout troop. My sense is that most Girl Scout troops don’t emphasize and engage in the same kind of outdoor activities as the Boy Scouts. My sons’ troop is probably typical – weekend backpack trips, 5-10 mile hikes, learning how to tie knots, start fires, and even shoot a rifle.
I’m sure there are plenty of Girl Scouts fortunate enough to have those opportunities, but there are likely many who don’t. Additionally, the primary skill that senior scouts develop is leadership – how do the Star and Life Scouts use their experience and authority to persuade junior scouts to perform tasks for the benefit of the troop? If allowing girls to participate means girls learn outdoor survival skills and leadership skills, what could be wrong with that?
Yessss!!!
Nice article! In grade school, I enjoyed Girl Scouts. In High School I was in the BSA Explorer program . My Daughter received her Girl Scout Gold Award & my sons earned Eagle Awards. All three earned awards through high level leadership roles in Venturing. As an adult,I fill the roles of Girl Scout Leader, Cub/ Boy Scout leader & Venturing Advisor. I agree that both Scouting organizations have pros & cons; both providing opportunities that fit different needs. The BSA has lots of physical & human resources because of it’s rich history of encouraging leaders to stay involved & give back time & financial support. Each leader does not have to be the master of all, because there is a local council with committees full of active volunteers who can do almost anything. GSA is traditional yet always evolving, sometimes too fast for BSA. Remember, Girl Scouts was founded before women had the right to vote! I always encouraged my female Venturing youth to try to earn Girl Scout Silver or Gold awards, because colleges do not really know the difference, but some try make them be similar to a Eagle award. Brand recognition when it is time to write your resume is important. Having a foundation of being prepared & based on doing your best, no matter who you are doing it with, is priceless.
As a former Girl Scout myself, proud mom of an Eagle Scout, long-term Boy Scout volunteer and Wood Badge recipient, I appreciated this article and the perspective that it brought me. I’ll admit that I’ve had some concerns over the direction that the BSA has been heading in the last few years, but I wouldn’t have traded the experience for anything. My son is a better young man because of Scouting, and I think I’m a better adult because of it too. I don’t remember much of my short-term Girl Scout experience (we moved and there was no troop where we went to), but I do remember the great camaraderie I had with the other girls. We camped once — in a cabin with bunk beds. And the rest of the time it was mostly “girl” activities which I wasn’t really all that excited about. I signed my son up for Cub Scouts when he was in first grade (the earliest we could at the time) with the hope that he would enjoy it. He certainly did and it was an extremely proud moment for me when he received his Eagle in 2015. I remember thinking throughout his time in Scouting that I would have loved to do the things he was doing and earn my own Eagle rank. I’m so glad that girls will now have that opportunity too.
Thanks for your thoughts, Janet! My daughter’s troop does a lot of camping, but I do like that that’s optional for Girl Scouts — making it a good option for girls who don’t care about that as much!
I’ve been told that even though the Packs will be co-ed. The dens will still be single gender. Is this true?
Yes, that’s what the Boy Scouts press release says.
Great article!
I have 2 boys in Cub Scouts, and my oldest son will be crossing over to Boy Scouts in the Spring. I’ve been his Den Leader since the beginning, and in fact found out I was pregnant with my-now-3-yr-old little girl, 1month into Tiger Year. She has attended almost every den meeting/pack meeting/Pinewood Derby/Raingutter regatta, etc. and the ongoing joke is my daughter has been going to Cub Scout events since the Womb….she wears her Tiger hat all the time and loves helping my boys sell popcorn. 🙂
As you know Cub Scouts really is more of a Family Program, so it’s common for siblings to tag along to Den Meetings. I remember one of my Scout’s sister (who was a Girl Scout) had to attend one with him, and said that she wished she could be a Cub Scout because we have so much more fun. She eventually quit Girl Scouts all together. I love Scouting and I understand a lot of what kids will get out of a program is determined by how much parents put into it, but because I feel so strongly about the BSA program, I couldn’t be more thrilled at the idea that my little girl could become some of the first Female Eagle Scouts.
As a 12 year veteran of BSA Adult Leadership and now a paid employee of the BSA I am thrilled beyond words that my 8 yr old daughter will finally be able to participate and be recognized in her own right. lol She’s been along for her brother’s Scout activities since birth and has long insisted she was a Boy Scout.
While my son will age out of his troop in February, he is continuing with a Venturing Crew… and I will continue my adult leadership commitment as an Associate Crew Advisor as well as a District Executive for our council.
I’m sure my daughter would do Girl Scouts if it were more visible, but it hasn’t been. Nor, as a single parent with no involvement from dad, am I all that interested in more time with girls/women. Girl Scouts would not serve the needs of my family like the BSA will in terms of leadership, role models, and activities.
I WANT my daughter to engage with male role models, fatherly figures, however you want to call it. I WANT her to have a male den and pack leader who can teach her and show her the things I can’t… and to guide her in what it means to have a trusting, solid, respectful relationship with the other gender. I WANT my kids to see me demonstrating cooperation and friendship with the opposite gender. I joined this journey with my son for many of the same reasons… I wanted that same male interaction and role model for him. That’s the one thing I couldn’t be for my kids… I couldn’t be their dad.
No matter where we’ve gone or what we’ve done with the BSA… there were families involved. Brothers, sisters, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles… nobody got left out of the fun, just the recognition. Now everyone can get the complete program and all the benefits.
As far as my daughter… We’ve been involved with competitive dance, beauty pageants, TV filming (yes, it was that crazy pageant show), all kinds of ‘girly’ things. What does she enjoy most now? Camping, hiking, hunting, and racing BMX.
Thank you for your article. This is exactly where I am with the announcement of girls be invited to participate in the BSA. My daughter can’t wait.
This is a very interesting article. The only thing that I want to comment about is the statement about character development. Yes, Boy Scouts builds character but the article made it sound like it’s something different from parenting. If you look at the Boy Scout oath and Law it reinforces basic parenting. Shouldn’t parents be teaching manners, shouldn’t parents be teaching a child trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent? I feel like the Boy Scout law is reinforcing what the parents should already be teaching the children.
I am completely annoyed with this. I do not agree with letting girls in scouts. They should stick to their own troop. I have two boys, both in scouts and i am a Cub Scout leader. The boys earn ranks to get into Boy Scouts. I think adding girls will just cause issues.
I love it and embracing the change. Unfortunately I think it is the death of Girl Scouts. Being a father of five my oldest 10 who is a Weblo and 7 year old wolf now my daughter who will be a tiger next year. Good stuff.
I love that you’re embracing the change! I think there’s actually great space for both groups to exist, and I hope my daughter chooses to do both! It will be more work, but I think she’ll really benefit from it.
I am a mother of 2 boys and 1 girl. My husband and I are involved in both BOy Scouts and Girl Scouts. I cannnot believe a mother of a young woman would write such an article. It is sad that this mother will not put in the sameness time with her daughter and she does with he son and put her daughter in Girl Scouts where woman become leaders. [personal attack deleted by editors] My son is very upset that his can join an organization where he can have some fun Boy time and grow to be a man. I am not even sure my daughter wants to be in Boy Scouts because she loves Girl Scouts where her female friends are. I think parents especially mothers should ask themselves why don’t we put as much energy into a girls organization instead of just throwing our girls in a boys organization (BOY Scouts of America) and throwing our daughters to the wolves. The organization in many letter have said they are not changing the name and they are not catering to girls. We tell our daughters to be powerful woman but only if it fits into a male dominated world (or club in this example)
In defense of Kate, the author, she is a dedicated Girl Scout leader. It’s dishonest (and mean, frankly) to suggest that she doesn’t spend enough time with her daughters. There’s nothing at all here that should lead you to that conclusion. We have deleted the other attack you made on her, which I should think would be beneath you as a scout parent.
You can disagree with her conclusion without attacking her character.
Kate also never said that women cannot be powerful as Girl Scouts, so not sure where that comes from. She described the need for more choices for girls, so that if they crave a more adventurous, outdoor experience, that’s available to them.
You may want to re-read this article.
Kate, I too am Boy Scout Leader and a former Girl Scout Leader and all the points that you made about Girl Scouts as opposed to Cub / Boy Scouts, I can attest to. I have a daughter who earned her Gold award and a son who earned his Eagle Rank. I have always enjoyed Cub/Boy Scouting more than I ever did with Girl Scouts. For me, it was the comrade of Boy Scouting that I found more embracing that I did with Girl Scouting. I also believed that I have obtained more and intensive leadership training through Boy Scouting than I did in Girl Scouts. Girl Scouts has its place as it does help many girls and my daughter learned much from being a Girl Scout, but she always longed for events or opportunities that she observed her brother doing in Boy Scouting.
“parents will be thrilled about not having to bring two or three different kids to different meetings and events.”
That argument should be removed altogether. It is directly contradicted by the fact that girls will be in separate dens. Meaning parents will still have to take kids on different days and/or to different places for every den meeting.
Every school activity and community sports program is co-ed now, so one of the appeals of Cub Scouts for my wife & I was to provide an all-boys environment for my two sons. This was literally the ONE thing they had to offer that, now it’s gone. Boys need to be able to cut loose & be silly with other boys, but now they’re gonna be trying to ‘act cool’ in front of the girls. It will begin to distract from all that discipline & focus that they previously had. Great the girls now have a choice between 2 organizations, but the boys don’t have any choice now.
Despite all their claims of external research, it will likely be slow to catch on outside of existing scouting families. Recruiting for girls will be low the first few years, & girls may feel outcasted as one of only a few in the whole pack. Also there may not be enough girls to even make a whole den of any given rank, so guess who gets to be Den Leader? The one parent who signed their daughter up, which is how we scare away so many new families already.
Youth Protection policies will surely get more intense, and then we’ll have the added difficulty of watching out for & mediating youth-on-youth protection.
Josh, interesting–your pack must work differently than ours does. All our dens meet at the same place and time, so adding all-girl dens would be very convenient for parents.
Thanks for your article! I’ve shared it to provide folks a different perspective.
As a female leader in Boy Scouts for almost a decade, I’m not surprised by some of the negativity surrounding this topic. I see pressure from male leaders quite often about the effectiveness of women in Boy Scouts.
What gets me most is how folks aren’t reading the announcement. It’s not like we are throwing everyone together at once, with the separation of gender at the den/unit level, girls can still be girls and boys can still be boys. The fears of girls taking over for the boys…not always! I challenge those within the organization to go staff an NYLT or NAYLE course and tell me there isn’t equal opportunity to see both groups excel in a coed environment.
The previous marketing campaign was “Prepared. For Life.” In the real world many areas of the workforce are designed to be collaborative and team-based. If we are preparing our youth for their futures, why wouldn’t we provide opportunities to learn those skills early on?
Just as we encourage our young scouts who crossover into troops to “shop around” and find the troop that best meets their needs. I think families need to “shop around” and find the program that best supports their priorities.
As for me, Scout Me In!
Go, Chandra! I love your passion!